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Dr. Katherine Sternasty – The Barriers to Entry for Hearing Aids

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Katie Sternasty

Dr. Katherine Sternasty is a Research Audiologist at Bose Corporation. She is working on an upcoming cloud-based system that can collect data and perform studies on hearing technology. During her time at Northwestern University, she helped develop an app titled hearScreen USA. During her doctorate studies, she focused on easing access to hearing aid and lowering barriers to entry.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • Why isn’t money the only barrier to entry for hearing aid?
  • The internal and external stigmas that keep people from getting hearing aids
  • Locus of control and how it affects people’s perception of hearing problems
  • Dr. Katherine Sternasty talks about healthcare’s role in the perceived price points of hearing aids
  • Why audiological care is seen as less necessary than other health fields
  • The people who helped Dr. Sternasty along the way

In this episode…

Hearing aids, along with other audiological treatment, are typically seen as either unimportant or stigmatized. While hearing is an essential part of day-to-day life, people are reluctant to get the treatment they need. There’s a long list of barriers to entry that keeps people from hearing as they should. Among these are financial, social, and personal reasons, but are there more?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty has done much of her work and research on the accessibility of hearing aids. She has come up against the same barriers time and time again and has studied how to circumvent them. Now, she offers her perspective and findings with you.

In this episode of the ListenUp! Podcast, Dr. Mark Syms interviews Dr. Katherine Sternasty, a Research Audiologist at Bose, to learn about the current barriers to entry for hearing aids. They discuss how the concerns go deeper than money, how the locus of control changes people’s perception, and the stigmas that exist around hearing aids. The two also talk about Dr. Sternasty’s research and what she found.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by the Arizona Hearing Center.

The Arizona Hearing Center is a cutting-edge hearing care facility providing comprehensive, family-focused care. Approximately 36 million Americans suffer from some sort of hearing loss, more than half of whom are younger than the age of 65. That’s why the team at the Arizona Hearing Center is focused on providing the highest-quality care using innovative technologies and inclusive treatment plans. 

As the Founder of the Arizona Hearing Center, Dr. Mark Syms is passionate about helping patients effectively treat their hearing loss so that they can stay connected with their family and friends and remain independent. He knows first-hand how hearing loss can impact social connection and effective communication. By relying on three core values—empathy, education, and excellence—Dr. Syms and his team of hearing loss experts are transforming the lives of patients. 

So what are you waiting for? Stop missing out on the conversation and start improving your quality of life today!  

To learn more about the Arizona Hearing Center, visit https://www.azhear.com/ or call us at 602-307-9919. We don’t sell hearing aids—we treat your hearing loss.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:04  

Welcome to the ListenUp! Podcast where we explore hearing loss, communication, connections, and health.

Dr. Mark Syms  0:10  

Hi, everybody, Dr. Mark Syms here, I’m the host of the ListenUp! Podcast where I feature leaders in healthcare. This episode is brought to you by Arizona Hearing Center, I help patients to effectively treat their hearing loss to remain better connected with friends and family and remain independent. The reason I’m so passionate about hearing loss is because I lost my brother Robbie twice, first to hearing loss from radiation to his brain tumor and then again he succumbed to complications in the brain tumor. I only care for years on the E of E and T. I performed over 10,000 surgeries and have treated 10s or 1000s of patients with hearing loss. I’m the founder of Arizona Hearing Center. I’m also the author of Listen Up: A Physicians Guide to Effectively Treating Your Hearing Loss if you want to learn more about the book you can go to listenuphearing.com. Today I’m very excited to have Dr. Sternasty. She is a research audiologist and product development and Bose Corporation. She’s focused on audio quality and building out a cloud based system used to run studies of the hearing technology. She was involved in research in both her undergraduate and graduate level. In our undergraduate level, she helped develop a hearing screening app called hear screen USA. And during her Doctorate of audiology at Northwestern University, she spent her time working on hearing access and in terms of the barriers to entry and also over the counter hearing aid programming. That’s what got me interested in her she wrote an article, let me tell you the name of the article that kind of got my attention, barriers to hearing aid adoption runs deeper than price tag. And that’s when I started asking her to become a guest. And now I found her because she’s at Bose Corporation. I’m excited to be here. Welcome on the show. Thanks for coming on.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  1:51  

Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Dr. Mark Syms  1:53  

Oh, this is great. So you know, we’ll get to the article. Tell me about your story. I’m always fascinated how people end up where you know, I mean, you’re passionate obviously about hearing loss. You know, you did an undergraduate degree, you’ve done a lot of research outside of you’re needed clinical experience and everything. So tell me how you ended up how’d you get into yours as you will?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  2:12  

Yeah. So I suppose not surprisingly, my undergrad major was communication sciences and disorders. I actually started as a business major and realized that was not the right move for me at all. So through family friends, I kind of discovered communication sciences. And of course, I had not planned on going to grad school. But when I switched my major decided I needed something that sounded great on my resume. So I applied to hospitals all over looking for research fellowships, and no one would take me I got so many rejections. But Cincinnati Children’s ended up calling me back and Dr. Dave more at least a hunter invited me to join their lab for a summer. And yep. And they were very hearing focused. And they said, We know that you might want to be a speech pathologist. But did you ever think about hearing? I said absolutely not. But I would love to learn. And that kind of changed my mind. And from there kind of the rest is history. And they really are the two people that kind of lit that fire for me with regards to research and joining that research and clinical practice.

Dr. Mark Syms  3:21  

That’s great. It’s awesome to have mentors who care and kind of can guide you through. So that’s, that’s a real blessing. That’s awesome. So you know, you and I connected on email, because I was, you know, I think I emailed you right when this article came out, because I read it, I was really interested in it. And so can you just tell me the gist of the article? I mean, I kind of know, but for the people watching the episode, can you tell me the gist of the article?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  3:43  

Sure. So the goal of the article basically was to spur some thought about over the counter hearing aid since at the time we knew regulations were going to be coming out now we know that the least first draft of the regulations are out. But I argue that there are a lot of other factors that have that contribute to people not adopting hearing aids or not seeking hearing aids, I really focus on perceived benefit, which is kind of that cost versus social value, Locus of Control. And then I also talked about how in countries where hearing aids are fully or partially subsidized by insurance, uptake rates are still nearly equivalent to the US that now the more recent market Trek has come out, and that’s looking a little bit better. But yes, so.

Dr. Mark Syms  4:32  

So for listeners, market trek is a an industry study that kind of goes into what’s happening in the hearing aid world and the hearing treatment world. And so tell me a little bit about those countries. So that this was fascinating to me. And I know that this has been a discussion that there are places in Europe, where people don’t have the economic barriers, and we have about the same level of adoption, which kind of is a controlled study between two places and whether or not money is actually the real factor.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  4:58  

So I Look at the market track data from Germany, believe I had France and definitely Australia in there all different countries have different health systems, basically. And again, rates were about the same. What was particularly interesting is an eye if you have not looked at the market trek reports, I, if you’re interested in this stuff I highly recommend because they have a lot of great graphics and great information. Yeah, and it’s pretty easily digestible. But they asked a lot of questions about how people feel about their hearing loss and how people feel about their hearing aids. And that is kind of what really drove me push further and look into things like personality and locus of control as kind of those background features that might make someone feel like they are more more predisposed to be affected by things like stigma, for example, which then ties into that social value.

Dr. Mark Syms  6:03  

Oh, I’ve looked at market track, I guess, maybe you can help me ever? Does it look at people who don’t have

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  6:09  

hearing you? That’s a good question. And that’s asking you to remember back a little bit? No, I know, I don’t I don’t know what I’m pretty sure they talk about new versus experienced users. But I’m not sure. I don’t I don’t remember I would have.

Dr. Mark Syms  6:27  

So let’s talk a little bit about the social issues. And so it’s, it’s, you know, the stigma of hearing level technology. Have you does that has that gone down? Because people are wearing earbuds and different types of technology? Or is that a generational or an age thing?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  6:41  

That’s yeah, and I think that’s kind of an ongoing question. And I think something that hearing aid companies for forever have been trying to look at, right, like, companies are trying to make things look more sleek. And that could be that’s big six area companies and elsewhere. Um, the market trek I looked at, I think market Trek 19 is the one that I cited. So one has come out since then. It, I believe, it seems to be getting better, but not exponentially. Given that now everyone has air pods, or everyone has some type of ear device that they’re always walking around with. So personally, I’m not convinced that we’re at a point where that is really going to tip the scale to the stigma completely go away for hearing aids and hearing loss.

Dr. Mark Syms  7:31  

i It’s not all the same. It’s not just the technology, right? So it’s kind of wrapped up in the having hearing loss to eyes.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  7:38  

Yeah, I also, and this isn’t necessarily based on any of the marking track data. But I think it’s, it’s not completely off base to think that if someone, if someone kind of imposes that stigma on themselves, it doesn’t really matter what everyone else around them thinks, right? So here, it doesn’t matter what other people say. Correct, correct. So it’s how you’re perceiving the value. So if, again, we think about that, like monetary value, versus social value. So if someone as I talked about in the paper, has certain personality traits, that makes them more, more likely to be affected by stigma, that social value is going to hold a lot more weight in their decision making versus the monetary value. Now, they might say it’s the monetary value. But when it really comes down to it, it’s how they feel that there are perceived by everyone else. And again, that’s more that’s more of a hunch than based on market

Dr. Mark Syms  8:34  

data. But it’s always been fascinating to me, when I would look at somebody and say, Well, you know, your spouse is probably frustrated, and people say, I don’t care if my spouse is frustrated, I’d be like, Wow, that’s pretty amazing. I mean, you know, digging deeper, it isn’t always true, but it’s fascinating concept of not being worried about the external social implications of the hearing loss and you know, itself.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  8:56  

Yeah, and I think it’s I, I’m always fascinated to by people who have hold that hold that at such a high level of importance, but then the the hearing handicap or the difficulties with communication they have, it doesn’t seem to outweigh it, not not everyone.

Dr. Mark Syms  9:15  

In other words, they have objective, they objectively report difficulty communicating, but they don’t want they’re okay with it relative to the social stigma preventing them from pursuing truth.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  9:24  

Correct. And I think another thing that would be interesting to look at if this paper was supposed to be a study, but thanks to COVID became more of an opinion piece. But I also I think it would be really interested or really interesting to do something more expansive. Looking at these factors, and like you said, current hearing aid users versus or users versus non users.

Dr. Mark Syms  9:52  

Yeah, cuz one of the things in my experience is I don’t actually think people are very good at proceeding that they have here. I mean, so people spend perception relative to their audiogram is not necessarily correlated, but it doesn’t correlate with how material.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  10:06  

Correct. And I think that’s something that’s very interesting to think about what the FDA regulations. So the hearing aids are big or over the counter hearing aids direct to consumer recommended for mild to moderate. And it’s, I think, as more data comes out, it’ll be very interesting to see how well does that line up in practice? Right. And I believe there’s research out there that says, it’s not that great. But at the same time, does that matter? Right, like, hear the discrepancy between a hearing test, and what someone perceives in the big scheme of them getting help, or someone’s hearing loss being treated doesn’t really matter, that there’s a discrepancy?

Dr. Mark Syms  10:48  

Well, I guess it depends, did you think about that, because one of the things is is is the social implications and stigmata that they perceive is relative to their perception of the actual impact of the hearing. And so, you know, if you under perceive your hearing loss, then you will under report, the social impact that you’re trying to get to outweigh the desire not to get them, if that makes sense. 

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  11:10  

Yeah, and I think another way to think about it, too, is if you know, mental gymnastics, you’re trying to think about the best way to say it. But if you are perceiving mild hearing loss, you actually have moderate hearing loss. Maybe that is what you were just saying that then you’re in the same, not a big deal. Well, I don’t care what anyone else thinks.

Dr. Mark Syms  11:34  

What other disease processes do we ask patients to validate their experience, right, like so. I mean, you know, high blood pressure, we don’t ask people like, Well, do you feel like your blood pressure’s high? I mean, it’s a numerical report of a factual measurement. Right. And so it’s kind of interesting that, you know, that perception of hearing loss is even the enters into the conversation.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  11:55  

Yeah. And I think audiology often is compared to like optometry, for example. And I’ve never once had an optometrist asked me how I feel about.

Dr. Mark Syms  12:05  

Well, I guess it’s because in optometry, when they fit you, they’re asking you for your is this clear? Or is that clear? Yeah. And so the problem is, and so the difference, I think, from my, you know, kind of thought process all this is, you know, you know, when an A is an NA, right? No internet, you know, a normalized value that you don’t know what you don’t hear. And so it’s just a different kind of paradigm in terms of perception is different. Yeah, absence of a perception is different than a difference in perception, right. So like, it’s not like you put the glasses on and the letters appear, and you take the glasses off and the letters disappear. They’re there. It’s just your acuity or ability to discern them. Right?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  12:51  

I mean, yeah, that does, that’s, it’s definitely an interesting way to think about it another. And I may have just lost my train of thought was going with perceived benefit. We can move on, if it comes back to me.

Dr. Mark Syms  13:06  

Let’s let’s talk about Lucas control, which I think is a fascinating. So you know, the perceived social benefit. I mean, I’ve had many conversations with patients where you’re trying to bring them along to a social benefit that they’re just not willing to acknowledge. And I think sometimes it’s just an objection, right? They just, they’re trying to, you know, I mean, nobody wants I mean, you know, I don’t have anybody who walks into my office and goes, Hey, Doc, you know, I’m really hoping that you’re gonna let me get hearing aids today. happen, right? And so but locus of control is a fascinating paradigm or model for this, can you can you tell us a little bit about that? Because this is really what caught my eye about this concept.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  13:43  

Yeah. And I get to have to give a shout out to my professor, Dr. Belonda at Miami University, who was my sociology professor and got me really interested in this stuff. And I’d be like, sociology is one of the big reasons why I am where I am today. So thanks to Dr. Belonda. Um, yeah, Locus of Control, I think is fascinating and can be applied to really everything in any person’s life. And I think that something that gets lost in the conversation is that people don’t know it’s not binary, right? If you’re not, you don’t have a completely internal locus of control, Locus of Control.

Dr. Mark Syms  14:21  

Right? Correct. But what are the two, you know, kind of concepts?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  14:25  

So there’s an internal locus of control and an external locus of control. In the context of audiology or even really health care, we can think about external as if someone has a more external locus of control. They feel like things that happen to them are more so due to luck or fate, rather than they can control so what I talk about the paper is if someone has an external locus of control, they are much less likely to go and seek out hearing aids or seek out treatment for hearing loss Even if they feel like they have some problems communicating their process to something else for that to be fixed, yep, it’s, well, if only the solution was presented to me, it might, it might not even occur to them that they have the power to go and do something about it. And that’s, of course, on an extreme. But then, if hearing aids or some other treatment were recommended, or suggested by an audiologist and to some other expert, a hearing care professional, then it might, they might think, oh, yeah, maybe that would be a solution for me. On the other hand, the inter more someone with a more internal locus of control has a lot more, what’s the word I’m looking for? Like self efficacy, they believe that they have the power to kind of take control of their hearing loss and find the they have. And it’s not competence, but it could be construed in that way where they feel that they have the autonomy to go and handle it themselves. And they have control over it again, versus that external, which is fate or luck. Has something more to do with it.

Dr. Mark Syms  16:06  

Yeah, it’s kind of interesting, because I’m not sure where the finances fit in either way, if that makes sense, right? In other words, the person with the external locus of control, then, let’s say, totally pay for hearing aids should help them come along. Right, perhaps and then the people with an internal locus of control should adopt even more of their free. 

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  16:26  

Yeah, I think the way really about

Dr. Mark Syms  16:31  

just approach approach to problem solving, it’s not about the economics aren’t necessarily in that context.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  16:35  

Right. And I think that’s one of the ways I approached the paper as well as it’s, it’s more than there’s so many things to be considered from industry, from clinicians, and really, from consumers or users. There are ways for each party to navigate this during health fair landscape, given the terrible uptake rates, given the detrimental side effects for untreated hearing loss, there are ways that each party I think could improve and could reframe how they are thinking about delivering hearing aids recommending hearing aids and using hearing aids.

Dr. Mark Syms  17:10  

Yeah, cuz So my take is, is is it, you know, it definitely has to be medicalized. Right. And so, that’s why when I say you know, blood pressure is an objective measure, hearing loss is an objective measure, it is a medical problem, right. So, you know, some of these Locus of Control gets surrendered. When you you know, I mean, you know, look, somebody has, like, you know, now this is obviously dramatic, but somebody has, you know, coronary artery disease with an impending heart attack, that’s gonna lead to dire outcome. Locus of Control really doesn’t play back, right? It’s really 911 to the hospital. So, you know, I obviously, we’re not going to be able to get there. But there is some sort of continuum on health care where you get over some sort of threshold where it’s a matter of fact, right. Like, there are many people who say, Well, I’ve high blood pressure on my treated because, you know, most people will, it’s an accepted, you know, causality that high pressure leads to, you know, heart attacks. And so, it’s an interesting how that’s where I see it going as a medicalization. And I don’t mean medical physician, I mean, medical, going from kind of a social issue to medical issue. And you know, other issues are medical that are social.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  18:23  

Yeah. Yeah. That’s-

Dr. Mark Syms  18:28  

Awesome. That’s a social, that’s a medical disease that causes social problems.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  18:33  

Right. Yeah, that’s interesting to think about. And I think one of the I think one of the benefits to that, or I mean, honestly, like I was talking about the three parties benefits to everyone kind of shifting their perspective, is that you’re going to, you’re going to be able to capture more people, and you’re going to be able to help more people. If we’re shifting the system to yellow or the cost of hearing aids, that’s great, but to address people with how they’re going to come to the audiologist or how they’re going to come to the store to buy their hearing aid. 

Dr. Mark Syms  19:09  

Me, though, like the whole price concept, you know, I was driving to work the other day, and it was on the news that the, the average car now costs $45,000. And so the average car costs $45,000. So that takes you from one place to another, you could get Uber to do it. And it might be or although Ubers much more expensive these days. It depends what city you’re in. And so the question then becomes, why do people readily accept that price point, but they don’t in terms of like hearing technology? It’s just I don’t have an answer for you. It’s just kind of a wonder out loud question. 

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  19:46  

Yeah, and I think I mean, honestly. I would be interested to talk more to again, our optometry colleagues further there are people who myself included I go and pay for glasses, I have a coke Hey, when I go to the eye doctor because I have to get the special eye tests. But there’s the perception again of a deal or whatever, because well, my insurance is paying part of it. So even though I’m paying out of pocket, I see that subtraction on the receipt or the bill basically, that says, oh, insurance paid for this. If I didn’t, if I didn’t see that subtraction, what I then perceive my $80 copay seems high for optometry but an $80 copay as Oh, that’s so expensive. Because I’m not receiving a deal.

Dr. Mark Syms  20:33  

Yeah, I don’t know. Cause, you know, interestingly, you know, as you as people are aware, you know, I mean, iPhones have us over 60 plus percent profit margin, right. And they’re incredibly expensive. And so there are much less expensive alternatives, yet, seemingly, Apple doesn’t seem to have a huge problem, moving the product, right. And so, you know, it is about that perceived value, right, in terms of design or utility and all of those things. So, I mean, that that’s the other way, obviously, you know, I mean, yes, there’s an APR. But there are other optometrists who have a model where they do design a frame, and, you know, help you with fitting and select, obviously, it doesn’t work for contact. But yes, for people who wear glasses, right. And so yeah, it’s all kind of interesting parts, how they’re willing to project themselves, I think is part of it, too.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  21:23  

Yeah. And I think I don’t and when I get into these conversations about suits, I mean, to a certain extent, we’re talking about the future of audiology and what what that’s gonna look like how we can how all parties can shift to make it better, because it’s not necessarily working for everyone right now. I’m not sure what like the golden egg, the golden goose, I’m not sure if there’s a perfect solution. Without a lot of big overhaul and a big shift in attitude from a lot of a lot of people. 

Dr. Mark Syms  21:59  

So what is that shift? 

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  22:02  

I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but the I think it’s important for audiologists to continue to value themselves. And for a lot of audiologist to value themselves even more be practicing at the top of your license, make sure you’re talking to people and you’re present in the community saying, Hey, this is what I do. Like I was at a family gathering this weekend, and people were asking me, oh, the cost of hearing aids, the cost of hearing aids, and I always start off my little spiel like your cost of hearing aids may have services wrapped into it. I think audiology because we’re so small. A lot of times, well, if people are not willing to talk about what they do in a way that is one, easily digestible for people who have no idea about audiology. And if they can talk about in a way that is in a positive light, despite the fact that there’s strong, not necessarily always positive things going on. I think the more positive press in a sense that you can get out there for what you do. And for the field. That would be amazing. I think from will group kind of industry and insurance. I think there’s a lot of adjustments that can be made. And I won’t get too far into it. But I think that if I think there is a world where industry insurance, and providers can all kind of symbiotically work together and help more people. You’re better. And I think that is not only how well I think a lot of it is how services are delivered, how products are delivered. And like we talked about how well an AI, how companies or providers kind of market their services or talk about it, because not everyone is going to have the same personality traits, as we talked about locus of control. Unsurprisingly, all humans are different and different stuff.

Dr. Mark Syms  23:53  

Yeah. That’s, that’s for sure. So this fascinating conversation about this. And, you know, I mean, I think one of the things that attracted me was just, you know, the whole concept that people always say it’s cost, and it’s just much more complex than that. Right? And actually, it’s also you know, what people are valuing? I think you’re talking about, you know, the concept that it’s not just getting objects, there’s, there’s a service component, right? And are most things are that way, right? It’s, it’s not building the brick wall with the bricks and the mortar. It’s the it’s the mason who puts the brick wall again. So you know, people have to declare their value in whichever way they have that and certainly the over the counter for listeners over the counter regulations are just coming to light they’ve been announced at the time of that or they’re present at the time of this recording and they’re under review. So many of you by the time you watch this, they will be have been adopted, although seemingly, people are already going after that market before the regulations are passed. So this is great stuff. So tell me a little bit about you know, I always ask people, if you are going to get a lifetime achievement award Who would you thank? I think you’ve already got some of them. But you know who would be the people you would you would thank for helping you get to where you are today.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  25:06  

For sure. I’ll say I have several wonderful mentors in my academic and professional life. Dr. Belonda has a sociology professor at Miami University of Ohio. Thanks again. The him and his visor for you. 

Dr. Mark Syms  25:23  

Oh, that’s wonderful, right.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  25:24  

I mean, yeah. And I mean, honestly, the sociology classes, open my mind to a whole nother way to think about the world and the way to think about people. And that’s why I always say, if you had the chance to take some social science classes, you should definitely do it. I also would want to thank Dave Moore. And Lisa Hunter at Cincinnati Children’s, they’re amazing. They’ve been so supportive, from the time I walked in their doors in 2017 till now. So they’re great. And really great people write professionally, but personally really great friends to have. And then finally Dr. Dark, Northwestern, he kind of took me under his wing my first year, and really pushed me to get a lot better at writing, to think critically, to think outside the box. And he always encouraged me to act on ideas and not to sell myself short, which and he’s honestly one of the reasons I’m here a Bose he kind of gave me the confidence to apply, put myself out there and see what happens. 

Dr. Mark Syms  26:29  

So that’s really wonderful. I mean, to have mentors to help you and yeah, it seems like a great place, especially on the cusp of over the counter hearing aids and Bose in their position in the acoustic market. That’s really great. So the other question I always ask people is what’s your favorite sound?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  26:45  

I actually had to give a lot of thought to this interestingly, smell is what came first I was thinking oh, like what’s your favorite sound? So my favorite smell would be sounds crazy, but like a boat engine like gasoline, but I have to be by late to have that smell be good. Sound though I think rain with a little bit of thunder, but not crashing thunder.

Dr. Mark Syms  27:08  

Okay, so distant thunder perhaps?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  27:10  

System thunder. I don’t love strong storm. So it has to be in the distance. But yeah, the pitter patter of rain.

Dr. Mark Syms  27:16  

Oh, that’s really great. Oh, well. You know, you’re you’re in Massachusetts. Now. I think you’re transitioning away from rain towards a more frozen form?

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  27:25  

Yes. Came from Chicago. So I’m used to it. I will say we had a nor’easter a couple weeks ago, and it was a lot of rain. Yes.

Dr. Mark Syms  27:35  

Some of my kids are in the northeast, so they enjoy that as well. So if people want to get a hold of you, how do they get ahold

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  27:42  

of you? Yeah, I mean, you can connect on LinkedIn. You can email me. Let’s see. We can use can use my work email.. Or like I said, LinkedIn. That’s great.

Dr. Mark Syms  27:58  

So we had we have Katherine Sternasty to here. She is a research audiologist extraordinary at Bose. But she’s also done not in addition to that some great work on some issues in terms of access to health care, hearing, healthcare and things like that. You’ve been a great guest. This has been a really interesting conversation. I appreciate it very much. Thanks for coming on.

Dr. Katherine Sternasty  28:18  

Thank you so much.

Outro  28:22 
Thanks for tuning in to the ListenUp! podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get updates on future episodes.

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